20 Best Sleeping Bags Under 200 (2023 Updated)

Congratulations! You have made it to the comment section, and you are debating if you should really buy the Women’s Cosmic Down 20 sleeping bag. My quick review is that it is a great bag that is incredibly fluffy, it is warm and soft and something that you would love to crawl into after a full day of hiking.

My long review… I did a gear test with my little brother, both with Kelty sleeping bags. I was with the Women’s Cosmic Down and he with the Kelty kids Synthetic down. We tested on two different nights, the lows on the first night was mid-forties, the second was in the thirties.

We were in a two-person tent and we both had mats and pillows in our front yard, so sod and damp dewy conditions. Learned instructions for use: wear appropriate clothing, you will not regret wearing long fleece leggings, even if it is mid-forties (say no to short cotton ones; learn from my mistake).

Also, do not get the bag wet, you will definitely regret it. I was cold on the warmer night because I slept with my body touching the side of the tent allowing the dew from the tent walls to rest on the bag.

While the bag is water resistant, in that I did not feel wet at all, it will decrease the warmth of the bag considerably. The second night I learned from my error and slept the best that I have ever slept in a sleeping bag and tent since before I realized the importance of sleep.

The bag was incredibly fluffy. I love the loft of this bag, it is kind of limp straight from the sack, but it gets really voluptuous as it airs up. It was super soft and the lining was silky. There was plenty of room for me to curl up and be comfortable and not too lengthy which is wonderful.

I am 5’4” for reference. I loved that it is a woman’s sleeping bag, so created for a lady’s shape and comfort (Praise the Lord!). It is marginally lighter than synthetic bags and about the same compacted size as a kids synthetic sleeping bag, almost smaller.

While not incredibly different in size and weight from a normal cheap bag, I feel like I will be grateful for the minimal difference while backpacking. While you will not be sleeping like you sleep in a warm bed at home, it was so much better than my $30 bag… (Can that even be a comparison?) I love my new sleeping bag and hope that it will last me many years.

This is my first backpacking size/mummy sleeping bag and I couldn’t be happier. I was a little nervous going from a full size all season type sleeping bag to a light weight mummy style. I thought I would feel crammed in with no room but I didn’t feel that way.

When I first pulled it out of the stuff sack it was real flat and did not look like it had any down fill in it, but it just got fluffier the longer I left it out. I just used this for a fall elk hunt in Montana and stayed plenty warm.

It is definitely not a sleeping bag you would use in the dead of winter but it will work great any other time. I highly recommend this sleeping bag to anyone that is looking for one in this price point and temperature rating.

I purchased this sleeping bag for my son to use on Boy Scout camping trips. He has not yet been on a trip with this bag yet, so my review is prior to “field testing. ” I can say that my son has slept (indoors) in this bag for the two nights since we received it and loves it.

There were some comments in other reviews about the zipper, but to me it seems well designed – just remember the fabric of this bag is delicate. I stressed to my son that you need to take your time zipping and unzipping so you don’t catch that fabric in the zipper – true for any bag.

Before ordering this bag I did a bunch of research and this one stood out because of quality and price. In the 1970’s when I was a Scout, my parents splurged and bought me a down sleeping bag. It was a great investment, lasted for decades, always warm, able to easily stuff it into the sack instead of rolling it and tying it, and super-light which is important if you’re a kid and have to carry it with your backpack full of stuff.

This bag appears very well made and I expect it should serve my son as well (or better) as my original down bag did decades ago. I did notice that the zipper was misaligned (one side of the zipper was “higher” than the other.

This is easily solved by completely unzipping the zipper and then putting the bottom “teeth” back in aligned.

Recently purchased and I’m very impressed with the quality of this sleeping bag. Just like in the old days. Soft, warm and comfortable. The canvas bag for storing it is perfect. No more struggling to get your sleeping bag in a stuff sack.

Thank you Kodiak Canvas and Sportsmen’s Warehouse for excellent products and fast service.

Does this do what a sleeping bag should do? Yes. BUT. There is no way on God’s green earth that you can get this sleeping bag back into the bag it came in. None. No way. What’s the point of having a compact sleeping bag that you can easily lug around if you can’t get it to become a compact sleeping bag you can lug around after you’ve used it once??? Side note on sizing: I bought two of these for my two kids under 10.

But that’s the limit. My older one is 4. 8” and the sleeping bag fit him okay. But it wouldn’t fit him next year. So keep that in mind. It’s best suited for kids under 10 for sure. I returned both sleeping bags.

I really wanted to love and keep them. But they’re useless if I can efficiently pack and carry them. I ended up going to a camping store and purchasing sleeping bags there. They pack right back up and are fuss-free.

IF you like to store your gear the way it was packaged by the manufacturer then DO NOT buy this. It is a GOOD SLEEPING BAG. It meets all the needs you would have at the ratings stated by Coleman. However, you will NEVER be able to put it in the storage bag the same way.

Coleman knows this so they made a permanently useless zipper on the storage bag to enlarge it after you open it the first time. From that point forward it will NEVER fit in as small as it was when it first came in.

So it is cheaper to incorporate a useless zipper than to simply make the storage bag bigger? I am an experienced Scouting leader who was/am the outdoor/camping chair. I am a good packer and decently strong.

I can’t pack it back in the “new” condition and certainly my 17 and 13 year old boys can not either. My wife bought a second one before I knew it so I was able to pay extra close attention to the Coleman packaging method and tried to imitate it.

They must use a vacuum to package the bag. If you are using a camp box and because of the bulk of this sleeping bag (decently cold weather~30F), you will be better off to store the sleeping bag folded up rather than rolled up.

When rolled up the dimensions are a diameter of 11″ and 17″ long. I’m not a fan of the “quick cord” design they have to hold the roll while storing but it does work OK. I just wonder when the cords are going to rip out since we try to get it as small as we can so we don’t have to fight so hard to stuff it in the sack.

I bought this sleeping bag because it was available and fairly inexpensive while we were staying in a hotel room. The zipper glides easily and it has a nice pocket for a flashlight or cellphone. My child was plenty warm since we were indoors.

Sadly, Coleman missed the mark on making it possible to repack or roll this ever again. If you plan to buy this and camp, get a garbage bag to stuff it in for the trip home. It will never fit in the stuff sack again and the tie straps are so short they’d barely tie a toddler’s shoes.

Coleman could have splurged the extra 50 cents it would have cost them to make either of these features usable.

I’ve been using this bag for a year and a half, and have put it through the ringer while camping in Washington State. For the price, you can’t beat it; I’ve pushed it down to single digits at night, and with the proper sleep system to support this bag (waterproof top cover and ground pad), it performs well.

I’ve never slept poorly in this bag, as long as it was under 40 degrees (and warmer and you’ll want to keep the bag unzipped). The only downsides are the size of the packed bag and the zipper. The zipper is pretty low quality and snags easily, making it a pain to get zipped up all the way.

When the bag is packed into the stuff sack, it ends up taking up about 25-30 liters; meaning it either needs to be kept on the outside of your pack, or you need a very large backpack if you’re backpacking with this bag.

I upgraded to this from my old rectangular sleeping bag. I love that it has the interior pocket, the Velcro at the top to keep zipper from unzipping while in use, and I especially like the draw string to keep heat from escaping around my face.

I like to be very warm when I sleep. I used it with a camp cot while tent camping when it got down to about 35 degrees. For most of the night I stayed very comfortable, but I did wake up just before dawn at the coldest point of the night wishing I would have brought an insulated sleeping pad to put under me.

Luckily I rolled to my other side, heat rose to my cold side, and I slept great the rest of the night.

My son and I are headed on a troop adventure, canoeing on the river for four days, and I knew we needed another bag—yet it needed to be light and portable. Landed this adult sized sleeping bag and tested, unfolding it, crawling in, and—most importantly to me—getting the thing back into the travel-friendly stuff sack.

It past the test. Folded over lengthwise, and folded a third over onto itself, then rolled tightly, it fit easily back into its stuck sack. This is going to be a great trip and one that I don’t need to fret about getting the bags back into the sacks (in less than 40 minutes like others that require engineering and wrestling skills).

Brought to use as a single sleeping bag I like more room. It compacts down well but I had to buy a separate compression sack. Its a summer sleeping bag not for zero temperatures.

This is ok but not that insulated. It is fine for one person but I think it would be too snug for two. There is only one zip so would be awkward if one needed to get out of the none zipped side. It is lightweight but it would be nice if the inner lining was cotton and not polyester as this can make you sweat.

Very smart and really lightweight got it for a mobile home fits better than I thought it would on a pull out double bed very pleased excellent zips all round pleased spot on thanks

I work as a firefighter and during these late September fires at higher elevations, it can get pretty wicked cold. Last week I had my wife drive me up my Kelly dri-down cosmic 20 because the Klymit 20 degree bag wasn’t cutting it.

That night my tent grew wings and flew away before I got back to camp (later found in a creek) so I resorted to sleeping on the ground with a tarp, sleeping pad, and Kelty cosmic 20. Within 30 minutes there was ice forming on the outside of my sleeping bag and I knew I was in for a long night.

However, this awesome little bag kept me warm and content till about 4 in the morning when I had to go ***. I did the deed and returned to the bag where it kept me comfortable, not toasty, but not shivering to bad until 6am when I had to wake up.

It had to be in the low 20’s to high teens without a tent and this thing did it’s job great. So over other companies I would say these ratings are more accurate and robust. Very worth the money. Wish I had there 0 degree bag now!.

Great bag! The space-to-warmth ratio is great. While I haven’t been out for a full night as of this time, I did take this for a “test nap” at about 33 degrees and I was quite comfortable. The fit is great! I’m 5’11 and I had plenty of room at my feet, and enough room up top to maneuver my arms.

That said it’s a fairly tight sleeper so bear that in mind. One thing I will say (and this is not really a complaint) is that this comes with a stuff sack and not a compression bag. While I understand long-term compression is not ideal for a down bag, cinching it down for a day or two is pretty crucial if I want to fit this bag in my backpacking rig.

It fits great in the compression bag from my Kelty Rambler, bring it down to about 2/3rds its stuffed size. In all an awesome bag, especially for a Black Friday doorbuster. Can’t beat that!.

We bought these bags on a whim for a Boy Scout Family Camping Weekend here in Georgia where the overnight lows were going to be in the mid-30’s – and the bags we already owned were only rated for the 50’s.

No complaints on the warmth. I will admit that I was wearing a couple layers of thin base layer clothing, but once I jumped in that bag I was nice and cozy all night long! I’m about 5’10” tall, and I think if our store would have had the long bag in stock I would have bought it for the extra 6″ of length.

6 foot was long enough though for me to get the hoodie on and not feel cramped. I need to look again, but I still haven’t found the “device pouch” mentioned in the features. Buy this bag – you won’t be disappointed for the price – and Kelty is a great name! We have their tents, and always a great value for what you receive.

I am reviewing as a pretest as I received the bag after the intended season and have only given it a good look over indoors. First, this is a very reasonable bag on several fronts: very reasonable price, weight, perceived durability, interior room, and overall quality.

I did not feel claustrophobic as a side sleeper. I am about 5’6ish and the size “short” fits perfectly, and may be OK for a person 1 inch taller but not more. The hood is nice and not huge or in the way.

Good practice to bring a cap if sleeping in cool or cold weather. The zipper ran smoothly, but definitely not snag-proof – no different from any other bag I’ve used and the zipper seems solid. Potential short comings: The bag is rated 19F comfort.

I will believe that when I see it given the modest to moderate filling. My 7 degree bag is twice as filled (and twice as heavy), so I have serious doubts at 19F comfort, so I’d suggest to bring extra clothing or a liner the first time out to se if this works for you.

I have not tested it at those temps yet. The inside material seems durable but not particularly comfortable for sleeping on the skin. With long sleep clothes that is no problem, but might be uncomfortable with shorts.

Lastly, Thank you Kelty for a very reasonably built sleeping bag for shoulder seasons or summer in the mountains.

In order to properly frame my review I’ll start with an experience I had several weeks ago with an off-brand amazon “0 degree” bag that I bought for cheap. On that trip I nearly froze to death in that cruddy bag.

I wore regular socks under thick full length wool socks, sweatpants, and a t-shirt plus a thermal long sleeve plus a sweater with hood AND we had a queen size air mattress with multiple blankets below us and multiple blankets plus a quilt on top of us and the first 2 nights when it was in the high 20 degrees F I still shivered and barely slept.

We made a run to the store and purchased 2 additional fleece blankets plus a giant thick comforter and gloves and full face covers and I still had to wear all the clothes to stay warm as the temperatures crept into the low to mid 30s.

And this was in a bag marketed as a 0 degree F bag which appeared fairly thick and warm. I purchased this bag following that trip knowing I needed something of actual quality. I camped last week for several nights in 35 to 37 degree F temperatures with this bag and it kept me incredibly warm.

The first night I went to bed wearing normal socks, sweatpants, and a tshirt and woke up 30 minutes later sweating. I ended up sleeping in nothing but underwear and I STILL had to keep the toe box slightly unzipped for a bit of draft on the toes and kept the top zipper down by 1 to 2 feet so that my torso didn’t overheat.

The Tuck 0 bag was incredibly high quality with regard to heat retention. Based on the temps I used it in it should be great down to low 20s with normal socks, pants, and a long sleeve shirt. You could easily handle temps down to the 10s with extra layers or actual thermal/wool clothing and down to around 0 degrees with good thermal clothing in a single layer with face mask or winter beanie.

As to sizing: I am a male of 5′ 9. 5″ and currently weigh 195 (which is about 25 extra lbs in my gut and not muscle unfortunately) and I have a fairly stocky build with broad shoulders. Having read some reviews I decided to order the “Long” size since it gave some extra width.

I toss and turn all night long and frequently re-adjusted in this bag. I slept on my back, my sides, my stomach, with legs straight out, with knees up, anything you could possibly imagine and I never felt constricted.

I do believe if you’re pushing 6′ 5″ish you’ll probably be a lot more snug with less ability to toss and turn even in the “Long” size. My final point, which is a minor complaint, is that the zipper will absolutely snag on fabric if you don’t work it up slowly and in increments.

I don’t believe this was avoidable in how the bag was designed because the thermal padding extends all the way to the zipper to ensure you don’t have a cold area. This, of course, leads to fabric near the zipper that can get snagged.

If you take it easy you won’t have too many issues. And let’s be honest, this is a bag designed for 0 degree temperatures – do you really want a bag like that with no padding near the zipper that would allow cold air to begin permeating into that area? Overall I rate this bag a 10/10 and would highly recommend this to anyone needing a quality bag for winter conditions.

If I were on ebay I’d say A+++++++++.

Great summer bag. We have it in our camper. It is fast and easy to set up, very cozy, not too hot. When we get up, we stuff it in the stuff sack. The blow-up pillows are a nice option too. We used those under our other pillows for extra lift.

I would recommend this bag to anyone needing a good lightweight quality sleeping bag for 3 season weather, not winter though. LOL. Really, nice Sleeping Bag. Just what I needed to pack on my motorcycle.

Used it up in the mountains camping. And worked great kept us warm and dry

I never thought i would get used to a mummy bag but I did, especially when it got cold. 20 degrees out and I was roasty toasty in my ultra light western mountaineering sleeping bag. Seriously, when everyone got up and crawled out of their tents someone said he was freezing all night long, another agreed then looked at me and the other guy.

I said I was warm as could be and the other said he was ok but put another shirt on. Then he said I must have had a load a clothes on too. I said nope, just my shorts thats it. It really did hit 20 degrees around 5:30 am and I was absolutely comfortable tucked into my bag.

I was wonderfully warm. Hearing how the others were not so warm and miserable I felt really good about doing cold weather hiking with my choice of sleeping bags. It,s warm, very lite weight and stuffs down darn near to about a football size.

I bought this sleeping bag based on our long experience with our 40D WM bags. Although we normally are in hammocks (and use quilts), we have started using a tent in the late fall / early spring and on bicycle trips.

I am 5′ even and this bag is just big enough to allow me to stuff some clothes in the bottom and button up the hood easily. It has easily handled the lower 20’s and with some additional layering of clothing, I am sure it could be used in the mid-teens.

The quality is what you get with WM equipment and if you take care of it, lasts a long-long time. To top it off dealing with Moosejaw is a breeze.

Haven’t had a chance to test the temp rating yet, but initial impression is excellent. Very well built, extremely light, very lofty, very warm. I’m really glad I finally pulled the trigger on it. I’ve always wanted one of these bags.

It lives up to the reputation and is worth the price tag. Blows everything else I’ve had out of the water.

Great bag, with good amount of fill for the price (280g). Best available in SA at this price point. Unzips to work as a blanket/duvet – this works surprisingly well when used with a bag liner. Kept me nice and warm (in a tent) during a 9-day trip through SA in autumn, with temps getting close to 0/freezing.

Very lightweight and takes up little space when packed. Recommended.

Incredible sleeping bag. Very light weight and compact. Dynamite comes in small packages here, kept me super warm in ±8°C with a fair amount of wind bringing the temp down a degree or two. Highly recommended if you’re looking to save weight and gain warmth.

Best sleeping bag I’ve ever owned. Super light and compact. Warmer than expected. Good quality zipper and stiching.

TETON Sports Leef 0F Ultralight Mummy Bag. 100% does not keep you warm in cold weather. I’ve used this in 35 degree weather and froze all night. I’ve paired it inside another sleeping bag, thrown blankets over the top, used extra padding under the sleeping bag.

Nothing makes this bag a zero degree bag! Disappointing for the price. Not worth it. My $10 50 degree Walmart brand bag does better than this bag. Does fit in the compact bag well and does pack in a 60L bag well.

The weight is just right for backpacking. However it is not warm and for being a 5’2″ woman I have trouble moving in this bag it is so small. Not made for side sleepers or those who toss and turn. Would not recommend at all.

You can buy better bags at Walmart right off the shelf for less money. Returning item!.

After many hours/days of research and countless hours of looking up reviews I decided to buy the Teton Leef 0. I found out about Teton when I was looking at buying a travel pillow and bought their Teton Comfortlite self-inflating pillow, which I absolutely love! I can’t believe how well made this bag is and the comfort is outstanding.

All of the reviews out there speak about the plush and soft interior lining and they are not wrong. it’s that nice. I wanted a bag that was as lightweight as possible without sacrificing warmth and there doesn’t seem to be any bag at this price point that comes close.

I am 6’2′, big and really like to move around and thought a mummy style bag would be restricting but the generous dimensions of this bag gives me ample room to move and shift. The zipper is butter-smooth and the weight at 4.

2lbs is certainly manageable for a bag that is a 0 degree rating. Fits back into the stuff sack easily and the straps on it allows it to be compressed to a size of a basketball. When I spend this amount of time researching products it is rewarding when the gear lives up to the high standards I set in my mind.

Teton matches this. so I also bought the Mountain Ultra 4 which I’m excited to have arrive next week. Special shout out to the customer service team at Teton as I had questions on some of their gear and they were the best I’ve dealt with.

Such a great company. Congrats.

We used the Leaf 20 bags on a recent 3 day hike in trip to the Manistee River Valley (Michigan). These bags are relatively light, pack down well, and fit easily into the bottom compartment of our packs.

Forecast lows of 50 F, but we could see our breath early morning while set up next to the river – we all stayed warm and slept well. Something we discovered while using these is that if you feel ‘closed in’ you can unzip the bag, turn it over, keep your feet in the footbox and use the rest of the bag as a blanket.

This worked really well. The bags are designed larger than the mummy bags I have used before, and allowed for a fair amount of movement. Fabric is comfortable, insulation is warm, quality is typical Teton.

Can’t beat the price either. We use these in place of our Celsius bags due to their pack down size and weight – will keep the Celsius for car camping. Highly recommend these bags for their value!.

I have spent several nights below freezing in this bag and it has kept me warm and comfortable. Kelty offers unbeatable value for the cosmic sleeping bag series. Down is super warm, light weight and packs down small enough for backpacking.

The overall construction of the bag seems very good. I like the 3/4 zipper design and the extra baffles around the neck. The shell is thin and lightweight which could be more prone to puncture and tear.

Condensation can seep through the shell so be sure to dry it completely after every use.

Bought this bag with high hopes because I really needed a cold weather camping bag to take hunting. We got to camp here in Idaho and it was cold every night, but it wasn’t below 20 degrees on any night.

This bag failed every night, as I was freezing. Not only did I have to wear my heavy base layer each night, but I ultimately had to put on fleece pants and a sweatshirt over those with heavy wool socks just to try and stay warm.

I could understand that if it was truly around 0 but it wasn’t. It was never below 20. Returned the bag as soon as I got back and Sierra was great about that.

I have the Cosmic 20, if you can snag one on sale, you won’t regret it. For the price, assuming you get it on sale, it’s a great bag. However, having seen and used other bags, there are some minor, or even major depending on your preferences, gripes.

This is a very typical mummy design bag. It’s on the wider side, so if you’re skinny, this can be an issue as you’ll get cold pockets. Being on the wider side, your head box is huge. Zipper gets caught rarely, but it happens.

The cinch cords to tighten the opening for your head are located outside of the bag. So to be able to tighten it up you’ll have to stick your arm out (in cold temperatures, this sucks). The plastic piece that keeps the cord in place isn’t the best, if you roll around in your sleep, the cords can slip through.

Neck flap isn’t very large, but that’s to be expected at this price range. Shortened version: If you can get this bag ~$80 for the 20, or $100 for the 0, it’s not a bad buy. Pros: quality for the price Cons: Can be a bit too wide if you’re on the skinnier side, cinch cords aren’t the greatest and located on the outside.

Great sleeping bag. Spacious, warm, great colour. I love the additional features that other bags of this type and value do not have, like the extra strip along the zip to prevent it from snagging the material and the extra pull zip at the top of the bag.

Awesome value for money and deliver was super fast. Thank you.

Good quality material and zips, but best of all is the soft inner lining that doesn’t make a noise each time someone turns around in them!

This light weight sleeping bag is a must have for camping. My daughter absolutely loves it.

This is my second Coleman rectangular sleeping bag and I bought both of them at Walmart. I loved my first one which I bought on clearance at the store. I figured that even if it did not meet or exceed my expectations at the very least I did not spend very much on it.

Well it met and exceeded my expectations including and most importantly the 15° f rating. It had a very unique tan polyester spun wicking inner lining that I’d never seen in any other sleeping bag and it was great including being very soft.

I washed it and dried it multiple times in commercial washers and dryers it came out great every time. And because of all of those excellent qualities I decided to buy a second one which I would not have needed to if it weren’t for my movers having lost it during a move.

I researched many sleeping bags and narrowed my choices down to Coleman, slumberjack and Kuomo. My most important criteria in deciding upon a bag is the temperature rating. I wanted one with a 20° rating or colder.

I had pretty much decided upon a slumberjack bag that was rated at 20° but before I could order it on Walmart. com it became unavailable and out of stock. Unfortunately Walmart did not have any other slumberjack bags rated at 20° or colder.

They did have another slumberjack that I really liked but it was only rated to 30° and I almost ordered it but before doing so I did one more search on Walmart. com and found a Coleman that never came up in any any other prior search.

It’s the Coleman Juno 15° semi-rectangular sleeping bag with an olive colored shell and a olive checkered foreground and cream yellow background color for the inner lining. It’s an absolutely beautiful color combination and compliment one another perfectly.

The entire bag, the shell the inner lining and the insulation are all manufactured from polyester which makes it very warm and very durable. The shell is a combed and spun polyester which makes it extremely soft as soft as cotton or maybe more.

Inner lining is the same from head to toe and again is extremely soft to the touch and on your face. That same polyester is both breathable and wixking so it prevents the body from sweating and prevents the material from holding moisture therefore causing a wet sleeping bag.

It’s dimensions are 6 ft 5 long and two and a half feet wide,, it’s huge and has tons of room! It has a contoured top which keeps your head and pillow off the ground. It has roll control which keeps the bag straight while rolling it up.

So when you fold the bag in half lengthwise on one side there are loops and on the other side there are toggles that fit into the loops keeping your bag straight. This is unique I know of no other manufacturer that has this roll control.

It hasZipPlow™ zipper for snag-free opening and closing. This is awesome again no other manufacturer has this. Thermolock™ draft tube prevents heat loss through the zipper. So all of that plus more for only $29! My best and most favorite purchase in a long time, I love it!!!.

I purchased the sleeping bag after having other Quechua bags which have been great. The temperature at night was well within the limits for this bag but I spent 3 nights shivering! We swapped sleeping bags between each other and the rest of the family found this just as cold as I did, the staff didn’t believe anyone could be cold in this bag and repeatedly questioned me when I tried to return it.

Really disappointing as we have lots of Quechua products which have been excellent.

The width has reduced and is not so comfortable. I had purchased a similar sleeping bag from Decathlon around 5 yrs back and the width was 2 inches more. I just assumed that this would be of same width but unfortunately that was not the case.

Also the thread on the sleeping bag cover is of a cheaper quality than what was there in my older product.